It was easier to write a new post then respond under comments, since I knew this would be too long for comment section and I wanted to include some links, so I hope you don't mind.
Actually I am sure you did not want to debate gun registry, neither do I.
However the issue has bothered me for awhile now and resurfaced this past week, I just need to get my thoughts "out there" and Eric mentioning gun registry opened the door.
I think you obviously know that I am not a person who would own a gun or think others should. I was brought up that one doesn't even play with toy guns. I am uncomfortable that we have guns in our house but living with a hunter that is hard to avoid, at least they are locked up properly as they should be and far away from my sight.
Onto the problem, last year you may remember the case last March of the Winnendan shootings where a teen killed 15 people and then himself . This case bothered me for weeks. Now this case has resurfaced because the father is in court for charges of violating the weapons laws because he did not have his weapon locked up as is required. Yes he should be charged or fined for violating that law, but is he to be held responsible for negligence manslaughter and bodily harm?
It is tragic, but why does the father have to be responsible? Why must he and his family suffer further? I would think the father and family has suffered enough. This family too lost a son. A son who was obviously disturbed and they have to live with the guilt of his actions every single day.
Last Sunday there was another case of a disturbed person, a woman who suffocated her child and shot her partner, set their home on fire,then she went on a shooting rampage at a hospital injuring many and killing a third person by stabbing him to death.
This recent case has once again caused a cry for tighter gun regulations.
Germany is known for having strict gun laws.
Guns are registered.
Gun owners have to pass exams and take a course that takes almost a year to complete. Personal checks for mental disorders, violations, aggressions etc...are completed before one can obtain a gun license.
Guns and ammunition have to be locked up in a safe and secure place, there are strict requirements on this. There is talk or perhaps is in place already of surprise spots checks done in your home.
Now because in both of these cases these people belonged to the Schützenverein, sport sharp shooting clubs, which are very popular, I even blogged about them, every village has a Schützen fest, it is the highlight of the year for many. Some with support of politicians are advocating that guns be removed from the homes and locked up at these clubs.
Ok at first glance that sounds good, yep get the guns out of the homes, but let's think about this. Now we want all these guns to be held in a central place, where any criminal gang or disturbed persons can have access to many guns at one time? Everyone knows now where these guns are held. It's like a scary movie, where the state or club now controls all the weapons, it seems like a totalitarian state. Are they going to have military to secure this holding place? How safe will such a place be? Also not an easy solution.
For we know unfortunately that gun registration did not hinder any of these tragedies, nor did the strict laws to obtaining a gun, nor will the central weapon holding places. I mean does gun registry hinder anyone from obtaining a gun? What is the purpose? Do criminals register their guns?
After the Erfurt massacre in 2002 and the Winnendan in 2009 there was also a cry for banning violent video games and paintball. I certainly am not a fan of these and also the violence on tv and in movies, disturbs me, I feel we have just become to desensitized to violence. Yet I know that computers, games and tv are obviously not the problem.
A German politician said the country needs to concentrate on strengthening the role of the family and teaching moral values to children rather than calling for tighter restrictions on gun ownership.
This makes the most sense to me, I know it will not avoid the unfortunate cases of really disturbed people, but perhaps even the disturbed, loners and those who feel like losers of the world if they are surrounded by moral values and embraced with the attitude that everyone looks out for one another they will not act out in violence against others. This may sound naive, but I wonder perhaps gun registry too is a naive solution.
Solutions are obviously not easy. I certainly don't have them.
I was surprised to see that Uncle Eric was in favour of the gun registry. I used to be too but then I heard a police officer explain that criminals don't usually register their guns and the high number of 'hits' that the registry gets now is not an accurate number as whenever a police officer types in a driver's licence the system automatically does a gun registry search that the officer doesn't even look at.
ReplyDeleteLori
The canadian gun registy has to be one of the largest sinkholes ie waste of tax payers dollars ever. From the promise of abolishment if it should exceed ...I believe it was..2 million..to now well over a billion dollars spent and still no more benefit than before. Absolutely no benefit..sorry it did have one...it scared people to give their guns away or hide them or turn them in to the police during amnesty days. Germany should be careful and fight tooth and nail to maintain their right to own guns (I am referring to long guns ..rifles used to procure food and protect from varmint etc) Just look a History and what happens when you take away the guns...too scary. Absolutely agree with Cab on last paragraph.
ReplyDeleteKarl K.
Thanks for mentioning that Karl, I suspected that it was a huge waste of tax dollars.
ReplyDeleteJust like the Human rights commission and the millions wasted there.
These are prime examples of "Gutmenschentums" a word I like to use borrowed from Hans Olaf Henkel's book,"Die Abwracker" explaining the finance crisis.
"Gutmenschen" who I believe have good intentions. Their ideas sound good, on the surface appear good, but in the end really accomplish nothing, in fact, most often do more harm than good.
I will keep you posted, I don't think the Green party will succeed with their fight for central holding places.
Oh Karl-Fr.also informed me that most Schützenvereins use Luftgewehr, air guns? I guess they shoot plastic not real ammunition? Ok I know nothing about guns.
I will also keep you posted on the case of the father above. I hope they do not hold him responsible.
Are you out hunting these days Karl?
Karl-Fr. has been "aufsitz" every Friday evening with a group of other hunters.
oh btw Karl H. hasn't had time to participate in blog conversations lately, guess he will catch up later.
I have been rather tied up with some other matters, but I am back now -- I think.
ReplyDeleteWhen one is outraged by something, I think one needs to be careful about what exactly one is outraged about. The Gutmenschentums cut both ways. Yes, "the law is an ass" all too often, and I think the law going after the man as you relate is outrageous. And I am sure there are other anecdotes of how terrible things have happened despite strict gun laws. But that hardly makes a gun registry bad.
In Canada, the move for greater gun control has never been driven by the belief that a the long gun registry would be a deterrent to deliberate criminal activity. The belief behind the movement has always been that it would reduce domestic violence and the damage done by lunatics. Check the websites.
Of course the cost of the long gun registry is outrageous. Can anyone tell me why Sheila Frazer and her crew have not looked into that? Why has the consistent call been for the abolition of the registry, rather than an examination for why the cost over-run was so gigantic? To me that smells of politiking.
I have no problem with a person owning a gun for the purpose of hunting, whether that be a city dweller, farmer, or aboriginal person. I have trouble understanding why a person who wishes to own a weapon that can so easily become dangerous, should balk at having to register it, or balk at having to keep it locked up.
I suspect a lot of this resistance comes because there is a certain amount of buy-in to the American gun culture, and the National Rifle Association, which considers the right to own arms a basic human right. But surely we know that the belief that owning a weapon leads to greater security is an illusion! A person who owns a gun is significantly more likely to get shot that a person who does not. (I don't have the time to find the statistic now) It even makes sense. If a man breaks into by house believing I have a gun, he is much more likely to shoot than if he believes I do not have a gun.
Having strict gun laws does not, unfortunately, make bad people good. Oh that it were that simple. But limiting access to those guns, does diminish the ability of bad people to do damage.
So going beyond gun control, how does government strengthen the role of the family and encourage moral values?
I don't think I am outraged more troubled.
ReplyDeleteI however hoped Uncle Eric that you would agree that this father should not be charged with manslaughter since I remember your outrage when a mother was charged with manslaughter after her baby was killed by a dog. What ever happened to her? I did not comment on that story because to be honest I just felt I did not know enough of the story.
I think the German incidents exactly prove that the gun registry, even licensing and tests, private lock ups, does not hinder domestic violence or lunatics from getting access to guns, unfortunately, sad but true. I too would want to believe otherwise.
For even though the law has gotten stricter after the 2002 school shootings in Erfurt, the law could not prevent the 2006 attempt, the 2009 massacre.
The only thing that helped was a faster police reaction and a warning put into place after the last incidents. The principal over the PA announced, "Frau Koma (amok reversed) kommt". Thus teachers locked classrooms. This prevented more deaths.
I totally agree with you on the illusion of owning a gun and more security.
I would be for banning guns, except rifles, long guns, whatever for hunters but then my hunter husband also has a Pistole, he says it's to put a Wildschwein out of its misery faster. ? What do I know?
Government doesn't strengthen the role of family and encourage moral values, that is I think what was meant. It isn't up to the government it is up to the country, as in the citizens. Though I do think schools have a role to play in teaching moral values and personal responsiblity.
btw the politician Schauble CDU, Christian Democrat that made that statement strengthening family.... rather than tighter restrictions on gun ownership. He himself was shot with a bullet to the spine in Oct'90 by a mentally disturbed person in an assassination attempt and has since been partly paralyzed and in a wheelchair.
Just a follow up on this post.
ReplyDeleteTwo gun control news stories.
The father was found guilty of manslaughter and negligence. I don't think this father raised a killer. I believe had the weapons been locked up the son would have found a way. I feel for this family, who have to live with this shame and guilt, the loss of their son, financial ruin and now this. Here is the article.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,744831,00.html
and related did you follow on the news the Swiss gun law referendum? It's a bit old already, sorry on both stories I am a bit slow. Still playing catch up and reinstalling from when my computer crashed. Who would think they had so many guns? Was this news to you?
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/14/lorne-gunter-swiss-vote-to-preserve-private-gun-ownership/